Comments on: Three Mountains http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/ Zen-Inspired Self Development Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:57:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1 By: Erica http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-45 Erica Wed, 15 Nov 2006 21:52:47 +0000 http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-45 I’ve been rooting around in your web site whenever I get a chance with my Teacher/Editor hat on and wanted to send you some first-impression, general comments. Since there is so much of interest on it, be assured I’ll continue to visit it! Your writing style is readable and effective, and is a pleasure to read. My first husband earned his Ph.D. from UW-Madison in Buddhism (specifically, Tibetan Buddhism). I was corralled into reading and editing his extremely dry, dusty, pompous writing in his dissertation and dozens of articles that were published in journals of other equally dry, dusty, pompous scholars. I always found the whole thing a snore. You write in a voice that is not condescending, but still expresses clearly complex issues, using examples that do an excellent job of clarifying your point. For example, I really like your explanation that the first mountain is practical, everyday—your example of understanding “I like chocolate” is effective! And then you go on to say how it has forgotten it has broken down the world into symbolic bits and “forgets that it did that.” Years of hearing Tony expound on Eastern philosophies fell away. Your words made sense and I actually GOT IT. I’ve been rooting around in your web site whenever I get a chance with my Teacher/Editor hat on and wanted to send you some first-impression, general comments. Since there is so much of interest on it, be assured I’ll continue to visit it!

Your writing style is readable and effective, and is a pleasure to read. My first husband earned his Ph.D. from UW-Madison in Buddhism (specifically, Tibetan Buddhism). I was corralled into reading and editing his extremely dry, dusty, pompous writing in his dissertation and dozens of articles that were published in journals of other equally dry, dusty, pompous scholars. I always found the whole thing a snore. You write in a voice that is not condescending, but still expresses clearly complex issues, using examples that do an excellent job of clarifying your point. For example, I really like your explanation that the first mountain is practical, everyday—your example of understanding “I like chocolate” is effective! And then you go on to say how it has forgotten it has broken down the world into symbolic bits and “forgets that it did that.” Years of hearing Tony expound on Eastern philosophies fell away. Your words made sense and I actually GOT IT.

]]> By: UrbanMonk http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-565 UrbanMonk Tue, 24 Apr 2007 04:50:24 +0000 http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-565 Hey Kenton, great stuff. Very helpful, especially the 2nd Mountain! I was looking forward to reading the pitfalls to nondualism post but got a 404 error? Hey Kenton, great stuff. Very helpful, especially the 2nd Mountain! I was looking forward to reading the pitfalls to nondualism post but got a 404 error?

]]> By: Kenton Whitman http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-635 Kenton Whitman Sat, 05 May 2007 02:42:30 +0000 http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-635 Thanks for the 404 notice -- fixed =) Thanks for the 404 notice — fixed =)

]]> By: priya http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-2669 priya Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:09:41 +0000 http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-2669 its beautiful.please keep on posting informative posts.thanks its beautiful.please keep on posting informative posts.thanks

]]> By: Kenton Whitman http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-2717 Kenton Whitman Wed, 01 Aug 2007 19:41:14 +0000 http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-2717 Thank you, Priya =) Kenton Thank you, Priya =)

Kenton

]]> By: littleboy http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-3604 littleboy Sat, 18 Aug 2007 10:45:26 +0000 http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-3604 is there anyway to cure the "the world is boring" sickness? is there anyway to cure the “the world is boring” sickness?

]]> By: Kenton Whitman http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-3745 Kenton Whitman Tue, 21 Aug 2007 19:33:11 +0000 http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-3745 Greetings littleboy, This 'sickness' is incredibly prevalent, and its roots are simple to understand. Overcoming it, however, requires us to 'wake up' to seeing the world in its marvelous, indescribable 'nowness'. It begins as we start laying our symbols over the world. As we learn a name for everything, the mysterious, organic world becomes chopped into symbolic bits. These symbols (the word 'tree', for instance), then take the place of the real deal. And the symbol is pretty boring. This is because instead of beholding the supreme wonder of the actual tree, we become satisfied with making a noise ('tree'), and our mind draws a simple picture of 'tree' in our head. In essence, we see the symbol instead of the actual tree. As the world becomes fully symbolized, it can become pretty boring -- everywhere we look there is just a dry, dessicated symbol. To make this less boring, we have to invent conflict between the symbols, and as even that grows boring, we have to resort to techniques to stimulate more potent brain chemicals. Soon we are watching constant TV, doing drugs -- anything to get more of a thrill or 'deeper experience'. What we're forgetting is that it isn't the world that is boring -- it's just that we've conditioned our minds to needing more and more stimulation. We get used to a stronger and stronger 'buzz', and feel bored when we're getting less. After three months in the wilderness, during which my mind became conditioned to dealing only with very subtle stimulation, I found that our regular, everyday life wasn't boring -- it was painful. Constant sounds, flickering images, and an assault of stimulation. It was enough to make me want to just disappear back into the wilderness forever. Unless we can 'wake up', we're doomed to dealing with the world on a contrast basis. Under these conditions, we'll always be on a sliding scale. We can make the world exciting again by spending a few days just sitting quietly in a room or in the forest, but as soon as we come back to the 'regular world', our mind will begin conditioning itself to more stimulation, and we'll be right back in the same game. Our experience will be a slow and growing need for more and more stimulation, balanced by times of boredom as we force ourselves to re-adapt to a less-stimulated environment. If we can see the world outside of our symbols, we become permanently enchanted again, and boredom becomes impossible. Just breathing, or touching the grain of wood, or looking out a window becomes an immense and incredible experience. Sweetwater, Kenton Greetings littleboy,
This ’sickness’ is incredibly prevalent, and its roots are simple to understand. Overcoming it, however, requires us to ‘wake up’ to seeing the world in its marvelous, indescribable ‘nowness’.
It begins as we start laying our symbols over the world. As we learn a name for everything, the mysterious, organic world becomes chopped into symbolic bits. These symbols (the word ‘tree’, for instance), then take the place of the real deal. And the symbol is pretty boring. This is because instead of beholding the supreme wonder of the actual tree, we become satisfied with making a noise (’tree’), and our mind draws a simple picture of ‘tree’ in our head. In essence, we see the symbol instead of the actual tree.
As the world becomes fully symbolized, it can become pretty boring — everywhere we look there is just a dry, dessicated symbol. To make this less boring, we have to invent conflict between the symbols, and as even that grows boring, we have to resort to techniques to stimulate more potent brain chemicals. Soon we are watching constant TV, doing drugs — anything to get more of a thrill or ‘deeper experience’.
What we’re forgetting is that it isn’t the world that is boring — it’s just that we’ve conditioned our minds to needing more and more stimulation. We get used to a stronger and stronger ‘buzz’, and feel bored when we’re getting less.
After three months in the wilderness, during which my mind became conditioned to dealing only with very subtle stimulation, I found that our regular, everyday life wasn’t boring — it was painful. Constant sounds, flickering images, and an assault of stimulation. It was enough to make me want to just disappear back into the wilderness forever.
Unless we can ‘wake up’, we’re doomed to dealing with the world on a contrast basis. Under these conditions, we’ll always be on a sliding scale. We can make the world exciting again by spending a few days just sitting quietly in a room or in the forest, but as soon as we come back to the ‘regular world’, our mind will begin conditioning itself to more stimulation, and we’ll be right back in the same game. Our experience will be a slow and growing need for more and more stimulation, balanced by times of boredom as we force ourselves to re-adapt to a less-stimulated environment.
If we can see the world outside of our symbols, we become permanently enchanted again, and boredom becomes impossible. Just breathing, or touching the grain of wood, or looking out a window becomes an immense and incredible experience.

Sweetwater,
Kenton

]]> By: Darkwyntr http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-12311 Darkwyntr Sun, 23 Dec 2007 11:41:06 +0000 http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-12311 Thank-you Thank-you

]]> By: Kenton Whitman http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-12334 Kenton Whitman Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:49:22 +0000 http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-12334 You're welcome =) You’re welcome =)

]]> By: Michael Walsh http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-18523 Michael Walsh Sun, 09 Mar 2008 14:11:52 +0000 http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-18523 Hi Kenton, Great stuff. I can feel a bit of almost "disappointment" in me as I scan through your discussions of models. For me, the chair is here, the mountain is there (a real one, *smile*), Michael in the chair, and I lucked out on finding your page which described this and other bits of awakening. The er uh, "disappointment" is then finding many more pages about beginner stuff such as the nature of IM manifesting The Secret et al -- I suspect I'd like to see them in the category of This Isn't It. *smile* As you write so nicely, "dry dessicated symbol"-world which is so right-on, I think I'd like more of that view. Now, I only say this because you are astonishing able and SO willing to drop into the dryness -- I totally get that You Get It, *and* hoping in the comment to point out that too much "dry" makes even your writing dry! Which actually surprised me, cuz I love your writing. I carefully decided to share this with you, because as a awakening writer also, I know you will appreciate the feedback. For instance, I Really Love you intro warnings such as, 'if you aren't a teacher, skip this"! I'd like to see more of that, is maybe what I'm saying. Then I would feel less rude when I only scan some of your pages -- even if I know you wrote them appropriately leveled for that audience. OK. Enough of that kind of thing! littleboy asked: > "is there anyway to cure the “the world is boring” sickness?" hmmm.... welp, there is no boring. I'm not being fancy, I mean that the word "boring" covers over a deeps disjointedness. That is, we most often use the word "boring" when we've separated ourselves from what bother we are experiencing. So being up in a new layer, we're also disconnected from anything spiffy. Very boring indeed! If you wish to look to find the core of it, you might start with looking for a "No", a negative, a refusal, a "I-don't-like" type thing. This may lead you to some neurosis or the like (which is likely to be why you use the word 'sickness'.) Hope that helps! Michael Hi Kenton,

Great stuff. I can feel a bit of almost “disappointment” in me as I scan through your discussions of models. For me, the chair is here, the mountain is there (a real one, *smile*), Michael in the chair, and I lucked out on finding your page which described this and other bits of awakening. The er uh, “disappointment” is then finding many more pages about beginner stuff such as the nature of IM manifesting The Secret et al — I suspect I’d like to see them in the category of This Isn’t It. *smile* As you write so nicely, “dry dessicated symbol”-world which is so right-on, I think I’d like more of that view. Now, I only say this because you are astonishing able and SO willing to drop into the dryness — I totally get that You Get It, *and* hoping in the comment to point out that too much “dry” makes even your writing dry! Which actually surprised me, cuz I love your writing. I carefully decided to share this with you, because as a awakening writer also, I know you will appreciate the feedback. For instance, I Really Love you intro warnings such as, ‘if you aren’t a teacher, skip this”! I’d like to see more of that, is maybe what I’m saying. Then I would feel less rude when I only scan some of your pages — even if I know you wrote them appropriately leveled for that audience.

OK. Enough of that kind of thing!

littleboy asked:
> “is there anyway to cure the “the world is boring” sickness?”

hmmm…. welp, there is no boring. I’m not being fancy, I mean that the word “boring” covers over a deeps disjointedness. That is, we most often use the word “boring” when we’ve separated ourselves from what bother we are experiencing. So being up in a new layer, we’re also disconnected from anything spiffy. Very boring indeed! If you wish to look to find the core of it, you might start with looking for a “No”, a negative, a refusal, a “I-don’t-like” type thing. This may lead you to some neurosis or the like (which is likely to be why you use the word ’sickness’.)

Hope that helps!
Michael

]]> By: Michael Walsh http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-18525 Michael Walsh Sun, 09 Mar 2008 14:28:45 +0000 http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-18525 Sometimes I feel like if there is anything that can be said about the awakeness experience (and even those words miss the mark), that there is a *texture* of sensate experience of the mountains -- before being a student, and after the resolution back into they be mountains. Ah, I can say it maybe nifty clearer: That if the *student* saw the way s/he might later see the mountains, s/he's eyes might pop open like the first time we see movie special effects. Whereas the nature of the middle experience is a change where we "get it" and there is no longer surprise to see a real live juicy 3D world in place of the dry dustbowl of condensed thought. It is this transformation wherein the viewer changes, not the mountain. If you modify the experiencer, it's experiences will change, yes? But being that it itself is changed, the mystery of why the mountain experience can change without the mountain changing, can be seen. Yikes! Is this too wordy? Ah well, nice site. Kenton you've choosen a really lovely theme.... have you considered making a website instead of a blog template? Your work Is Really Good and worthy of that kind of extra effort. This is not mere opinion you share, but good writing/clarity on difficult-to-type subjects. I reference as evidence, Erica's Comment above. I totally get that you're already doing "good" but I'm saying yep you're real good and could take it to another level if you had more design leeway. Just saying. Thanks for your site. Michael Sometimes I feel like if there is anything that can be said about the awakeness experience (and even those words miss the mark), that there is a *texture* of sensate experience of the mountains — before being a student, and after the resolution back into they be mountains.

Ah, I can say it maybe nifty clearer: That if the *student* saw the way s/he might later see the mountains, s/he’s eyes might pop open like the first time we see movie special effects. Whereas the nature of the middle experience is a change where we “get it” and there is no longer surprise to see a real live juicy 3D world in place of the dry dustbowl of condensed thought. It is this transformation wherein the viewer changes, not the mountain. If you modify the experiencer, it’s experiences will change, yes? But being that it itself is changed, the mystery of why the mountain experience can change without the mountain changing, can be seen. Yikes! Is this too wordy?

Ah well, nice site. Kenton you’ve choosen a really lovely theme…. have you considered making a website instead of a blog template? Your work Is Really Good and worthy of that kind of extra effort. This is not mere opinion you share, but good writing/clarity on difficult-to-type subjects. I reference as evidence, Erica’s Comment above. I totally get that you’re already doing “good” but I’m saying yep you’re real good and could take it to another level if you had more design leeway. Just saying.

Thanks for your site.
Michael

]]> By: Kenton Whitman http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-18526 Kenton Whitman Sun, 09 Mar 2008 15:25:16 +0000 http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-18526 Greetings Michael, I'm so glad you wrote -- not only because of your thoughtful commentary, but because I've now been led to your site! Wonderful to meet another writer on the subject ;) In regards to your first comment, I've tried to craft this site so that it's not just a collection of posts, but an interconnected process where people of different mindsets can find writings which will challenge them. Writings on subjects such as I-M can seem 'fluffy', but they serve two purposes -- one, I've hidden some challenging new thoughts within the context of ideas that many people are interested in. Two, for those who might be leaving IM and such things behind, it serves as a reminder that awakening is not about exclusion or a process of modifying behavior. Too often I hear people speak about awakening and insist that awakening is about having a quiet mind, being free of desire, being emotionally placid, etc. Most of us who are on a quest for enlightenment harbor ideas such as this, and end up trying to adhere to an idea in our heads rather than just 'being'. So my fluffier articles serve as a reminder that even the pursuits of 'normal' life are not anti-awakening. Awakening, of course, can be found anywhere -- not just in a temple, but in our greed, our desires, and our symbols and ideas. So the secret is that the article on I-M can be read from any of the 'Three Mountain' perspectives outlined above, and as our mindset changes, we'll discover different things within it. I want to thank you for the view you expressed in your second comment. The blog format does indeed present many weaknesses. It's odd, because in the past I've only dealt with websites, and ventured into the blog template because I thought it might give people more of a chance to interact. I do love the interaction that goes on, but I've often thought that a website would indeed be more appropriate. Lately, I've been busy with a 'secret' writing project, and so I've taken to only writing here once every one or two weeks. But it's likely that in the not-too-distant future I will turn this url into a website having to do with the secret project, and will move much of this content onto another site and create a new format where a reader can be guided to appropriate reading material. Thank you again for all of your words. It is very exciting to have your commentary here, as you add a wonderful perspective. I'll look forward to exploring your site, as well =) Sweetwater, Kenton Greetings Michael,

I’m so glad you wrote — not only because of your thoughtful commentary, but because I’ve now been led to your site! Wonderful to meet another writer on the subject ;)

In regards to your first comment, I’ve tried to craft this site so that it’s not just a collection of posts, but an interconnected process where people of different mindsets can find writings which will challenge them. Writings on subjects such as I-M can seem ‘fluffy’, but they serve two purposes — one, I’ve hidden some challenging new thoughts within the context of ideas that many people are interested in. Two, for those who might be leaving IM and such things behind, it serves as a reminder that awakening is not about exclusion or a process of modifying behavior. Too often I hear people speak about awakening and insist that awakening is about having a quiet mind, being free of desire, being emotionally placid, etc. Most of us who are on a quest for enlightenment harbor ideas such as this, and end up trying to adhere to an idea in our heads rather than just ‘being’.

So my fluffier articles serve as a reminder that even the pursuits of ‘normal’ life are not anti-awakening. Awakening, of course, can be found anywhere — not just in a temple, but in our greed, our desires, and our symbols and ideas. So the secret is that the article on I-M can be read from any of the ‘Three Mountain’ perspectives outlined above, and as our mindset changes, we’ll discover different things within it.

I want to thank you for the view you expressed in your second comment. The blog format does indeed present many weaknesses. It’s odd, because in the past I’ve only dealt with websites, and ventured into the blog template because I thought it might give people more of a chance to interact. I do love the interaction that goes on, but I’ve often thought that a website would indeed be more appropriate. Lately, I’ve been busy with a ’secret’ writing project, and so I’ve taken to only writing here once every one or two weeks. But it’s likely that in the not-too-distant future I will turn this url into a website having to do with the secret project, and will move much of this content onto another site and create a new format where a reader can be guided to appropriate reading material.

Thank you again for all of your words. It is very exciting to have your commentary here, as you add a wonderful perspective. I’ll look forward to exploring your site, as well =)

Sweetwater,
Kenton

]]> By: Ariel http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-26475 Ariel Mon, 11 Aug 2008 03:06:02 +0000 http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-26475 Hey Kenton, that's really great how you're presenting the Third Mountain as the ability to play with the illusion without seeing it as real, to be in this world, but not of it. Hey Kenton, that’s really great how you’re presenting the Third Mountain as the ability to play with the illusion without seeing it as real, to be in this world, but not of it.

]]> By: Kenton Whitman http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-26567 Kenton Whitman Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:52:51 +0000 http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-26567 Hello Ariel, Words pretty much fail when you try to do something like describe the Third Mountain. I was hoping that some light-hearted fun and the idea of Play would give people a new impression of what they're searching for. Often, it seems we create a goal in our minds, and it's good to mix that goal up once in a while, to give it another flavor and confuse our thinking minds a bit. Glad you liked it! Sweetwater, Kenton Hello Ariel,

Words pretty much fail when you try to do something like describe the Third Mountain. I was hoping that some light-hearted fun and the idea of Play would give people a new impression of what they’re searching for. Often, it seems we create a goal in our minds, and it’s good to mix that goal up once in a while, to give it another flavor and confuse our thinking minds a bit. Glad you liked it!

Sweetwater,
Kenton

]]> By: Josh http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-27247 Josh Sun, 24 Aug 2008 03:14:24 +0000 http://kentonwhitman.com/blog/2006/10/23/three-mountains/#comment-27247 Dearest kenton, Your articles and site have helped me so much! Starting in 2006, around my 16th birthday, my father passed away. This led me to question everything i thought I knew, and everything I didn't know. Down a spiritual path that led me to where I am today. Just last week, everything sorta clicked with me. I was everything, and nothing at once. I had before thought I understood this conceptually, but it was nothing like what i experienced/am experiencing. There is no Me, and in seeing this, It seems like my center is everywhere. if that makes any sense..? As I've been sinking into this great void, I cant help but worry how i will act at my first job next week, or communicating with people in general. Maybe this is just my remaining ego trying to hold on to something. I don't know, but thank you so much sir. much love, josh Dearest kenton,

Your articles and site have helped me so much! Starting in 2006, around my 16th birthday, my father passed away. This led me to question everything i thought I knew, and everything I didn’t know. Down a spiritual path that led me to where I am today.
Just last week, everything sorta clicked with me. I was everything, and nothing at once. I had before thought I understood this conceptually, but it was nothing like what i experienced/am experiencing. There is no Me, and in seeing this, It seems like my center is everywhere. if that makes any sense..?

As I’ve been sinking into this great void, I cant help but worry how i will act at my first job next week, or communicating with people in general. Maybe this is just my remaining ego trying to hold on to something. I don’t know, but thank you so much sir.

much love,
josh

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